If you deep dive Jocko’s leadership books he leans into taking personal responsibility and being accountable to one’s actions. It’s probably considered a very American philosophical approach to self improvement. He also draws greatly from military leadership and training doctrine that encourages self accountability, discipline, and team work. He published a book called “The Code, Evaluation, Protocals” But I never checked it out, just heard him talk a boy it on his Pod.
Thank you for taking the time to read my article and commenting.
Apologies for that, I thought I had fixed that in my review but I suppose I did not. I have adjusted that accordingly, thank you for pointing that out.
On your second point, I would have expected as much. I had watched a few hours of his content but came away feeling that his approach was less about these protocols and more about mental resolve. This is what had tempted me to address the topic in a Substack article.
Naturally the guy has put out hundreds if not thousands of hours of content and a few books, which I can't claim to have read much of but I am glad that he does also have productive tools for people.
Did you find these protocols and operating procedures were helpful for you? Any quick ones you suggest for the benefit of other readers?
Thank you for taking the time to read and comment on my article.
Freedom equals discipline is Jocko's argument, I chose not to spend more time recapping his thoughts on the issue largely for length and interest purposes. I summarized it as from his perspective if you want to be successful, discipline is the key.
Discipline is a subjective trait. You and I might both believe we have discipline while others might say neither of us are discipline. You can try to design tests to determine discipline but there is no objective way of knowing. This is partially why I find his belief in discipline to be generally broad.
I agree and considering that most of his listeners likely did not serve, his advice to "just get after it", is probably not going to help them much.
In general I think it is good to have discipline, but that by itself probably won't be enough.
Happy to discuss any other points I brought up further!
Does it take more or less discipline to avoid unhealthy food than to brush your teeth in the morning?
It requires some discipline to brush your teeth each morning but it probably doesn’t feel as hard as avoiding smoking if it’s something you do regularly.
The problem is most people don’t think of it this way. Instead of trying to stick with something to form the new habit, they don’t create a system to help them and rely on willpower alone, which is almost guaranteed to fail.
My point is largely that relying on will power alone is never going to work. You need to find ways that it becomes harder to not form the habit than it is to form and stick with the habit.
Also, I am being a pedant, I think your point is mostly right. It requires a lot less discipline to follow a system then white knuckle your way through it.
When I was out of shape, I would always start a home workout routine and then give up after a couple of weeks.
When I got into shape, I joined Orange Theory, so the only decisions I had to make about working out was which class I would go to. If I could drag my carcass there, I had to make basically no other decisions because some chirpy fitness instructor would tell me what to do.
I think this is one of the ways the military is so successful with relatively low conscientous young men, they take almost every decision away from them so they can focus on what they need to do.
Definitely! I was a personal trainer for several years and many of my clients said perhaps the greatest benefit of a trainer is the accountability of knowing I was waiting for them and they would be charged if they didn’t show up. They would never have shown up if I wasn’t there.
“We can only achieve quantum improvements in our lives as we quit hacking at the leaves of attitude and behavior and get to work on the root, the paradigms from which our attitudes and behaviors flow.” -Steve covey.
The post is enough attempt to hack at the leaves- along with most of the other atomic habit, tiny habit , regurgitated things out there.
Change the paradigm then change the “habit”
Also, discipline can also come from a place of love. So I believe this word has deeper meanings then just the straight and narrow goggins -esk meaning.
Interestingly Goggins had a paradigm shift at 300 pounds —he didn’t compound tiny habits to achieve some miraculous goal. That’s his story. He’s was just an average, overweight, dude floating through life.
His “discipline” flowed through the paradigm shift.
Hi @jordan bonifas thank you for taking the time to read and comment.
Discipline certainly has it's place but that on it's own won't help most people. For every Goggins you have thousands (if not more) who give up before they start because they don't have nearly enough discipline to stick with what they know they need to do.
I'm not an expert in Goggins but from what I've heard from him, he seems to thrive on doing things that he hates. After years of doing this, he's grown accustomed to this, so the amount of discipline he needs is much less, since it's become part of his every day routine. This is why he needs to keep challenging himself to do more extreme things.
If people can achieve their goals off discipline alone, I would be very impressed but from my observations, most people are not like Goggins and really try to avoid doing things they hate. This is why making smaller changes that become the routine is probably easier but if you add this with discipline, your likelihood of success is much higher than relying on either in isolation.
Funnily enough I never read Atomic Habits but most people assume I lifted most of this from there. Not surprised, I'm certainly not the first person to think of this and neither is James Clear.
Thanks for sharing. Little thought of my own, we don't actually have as much discipline than we think we have. Ritual is a better way of framing routine since ritual begets something spiritual. Subscribed and keep it up :)
Insightful piece! I'm wondering if you've read Determined by Robert Sapolsky, or listened to him on podcasts. He's got an interesting take, which sort of layers your argument further. His claim is that, despite however much you want to, you can't will yourself to have more willpower. Willpower of course being the driver of discipline on a moment to moment basis.
If you deep dive Jocko’s leadership books he leans into taking personal responsibility and being accountable to one’s actions. It’s probably considered a very American philosophical approach to self improvement. He also draws greatly from military leadership and training doctrine that encourages self accountability, discipline, and team work. He published a book called “The Code, Evaluation, Protocals” But I never checked it out, just heard him talk a boy it on his Pod.
Accountability is definitely important and I also like what he says about taking ownership.
I’ll check out what he says about the new book on his podcast.
Thanks for the recommendation!
1) Jocko was a Navy SEAL not a Marine
2) Jocko does have a a lot of content on building “protocals” or “standard operating procedures” that are similar to your systems approach.
Hi Miguel,
Thank you for taking the time to read my article and commenting.
Apologies for that, I thought I had fixed that in my review but I suppose I did not. I have adjusted that accordingly, thank you for pointing that out.
On your second point, I would have expected as much. I had watched a few hours of his content but came away feeling that his approach was less about these protocols and more about mental resolve. This is what had tempted me to address the topic in a Substack article.
Naturally the guy has put out hundreds if not thousands of hours of content and a few books, which I can't claim to have read much of but I am glad that he does also have productive tools for people.
Did you find these protocols and operating procedures were helpful for you? Any quick ones you suggest for the benefit of other readers?
1. you never explain why freedom equals discipline.
2. Who has discipline? How is this distributed over the population. How long can you starve yourself for?
3. Army men are chosen for discipline. This is there number one trait.
Hi Adrian,
Thank you for taking the time to read and comment on my article.
Freedom equals discipline is Jocko's argument, I chose not to spend more time recapping his thoughts on the issue largely for length and interest purposes. I summarized it as from his perspective if you want to be successful, discipline is the key.
Discipline is a subjective trait. You and I might both believe we have discipline while others might say neither of us are discipline. You can try to design tests to determine discipline but there is no objective way of knowing. This is partially why I find his belief in discipline to be generally broad.
I agree and considering that most of his listeners likely did not serve, his advice to "just get after it", is probably not going to help them much.
In general I think it is good to have discipline, but that by itself probably won't be enough.
Happy to discuss any other points I brought up further!
*their
Gillis. Legend
Right?
This guy has been on such a run past few years.
He was the people’s champion, now he’s starting to challenge Pete Davidson for the other belt.
Isn’t everything you described a form of discipline?
Everything is relative.
Does it take more or less discipline to avoid unhealthy food than to brush your teeth in the morning?
It requires some discipline to brush your teeth each morning but it probably doesn’t feel as hard as avoiding smoking if it’s something you do regularly.
But now we’re getting into the difference between having a habit and forming a habit.
Habits, once imbedded, are hard to dislodge, but they’re stunningly difficult to start and involve some form of discipline to do so.
You are absolutely right.
The problem is most people don’t think of it this way. Instead of trying to stick with something to form the new habit, they don’t create a system to help them and rely on willpower alone, which is almost guaranteed to fail.
My point is largely that relying on will power alone is never going to work. You need to find ways that it becomes harder to not form the habit than it is to form and stick with the habit.
Also, I am being a pedant, I think your point is mostly right. It requires a lot less discipline to follow a system then white knuckle your way through it.
When I was out of shape, I would always start a home workout routine and then give up after a couple of weeks.
When I got into shape, I joined Orange Theory, so the only decisions I had to make about working out was which class I would go to. If I could drag my carcass there, I had to make basically no other decisions because some chirpy fitness instructor would tell me what to do.
I think this is one of the ways the military is so successful with relatively low conscientous young men, they take almost every decision away from them so they can focus on what they need to do.
Definitely! I was a personal trainer for several years and many of my clients said perhaps the greatest benefit of a trainer is the accountability of knowing I was waiting for them and they would be charged if they didn’t show up. They would never have shown up if I wasn’t there.
I used that strategy as well. I used to tell people “I don’t like working out, but I HATE missing appointments”
Or what do you hate more.
Exercise or wasting money?
Most people would rather suffer through physical stress than see money go to waste. Even people with way too much of it.
Thanks for the article. Very interesting.
Thank you @RevelinConcentration !
Really glad you liked it and took the time to read + comment.
Jocko…🙄
Loves this article
Zzzzzzzzz
Not particularly. I tend not to agree with you.
I do respect your right to say it however.
That's fair.
I would get nervous if I said anything that 100% of people agreed with.
In any case, I appreciate you taking the time to read and comment, even if this wasn't quite your cup of tea.
Maybe I'll win you over in another article, if not I suppose I'll just need to look for fulfilment elsewhere.
I take it you liked the article ?
“We can only achieve quantum improvements in our lives as we quit hacking at the leaves of attitude and behavior and get to work on the root, the paradigms from which our attitudes and behaviors flow.” -Steve covey.
The post is enough attempt to hack at the leaves- along with most of the other atomic habit, tiny habit , regurgitated things out there.
Change the paradigm then change the “habit”
Also, discipline can also come from a place of love. So I believe this word has deeper meanings then just the straight and narrow goggins -esk meaning.
Interestingly Goggins had a paradigm shift at 300 pounds —he didn’t compound tiny habits to achieve some miraculous goal. That’s his story. He’s was just an average, overweight, dude floating through life.
His “discipline” flowed through the paradigm shift.
Change your lens and your world changes.
Hi @jordan bonifas thank you for taking the time to read and comment.
Discipline certainly has it's place but that on it's own won't help most people. For every Goggins you have thousands (if not more) who give up before they start because they don't have nearly enough discipline to stick with what they know they need to do.
I'm not an expert in Goggins but from what I've heard from him, he seems to thrive on doing things that he hates. After years of doing this, he's grown accustomed to this, so the amount of discipline he needs is much less, since it's become part of his every day routine. This is why he needs to keep challenging himself to do more extreme things.
If people can achieve their goals off discipline alone, I would be very impressed but from my observations, most people are not like Goggins and really try to avoid doing things they hate. This is why making smaller changes that become the routine is probably easier but if you add this with discipline, your likelihood of success is much higher than relying on either in isolation.
Funnily enough I never read Atomic Habits but most people assume I lifted most of this from there. Not surprised, I'm certainly not the first person to think of this and neither is James Clear.
who is that guy in the picture and is that his wife?
Shane Gillis.
Not sure if that’s his girlfriend or not.
He’s winning on all levels.
Can’t imagine when their friend groups get together.
don't do my man shane dirty like that
I think he will recover from this.
Great article!
I’m glad you liked it!
Thanks for taking the time to read and comment
Thanks for sharing. Little thought of my own, we don't actually have as much discipline than we think we have. Ritual is a better way of framing routine since ritual begets something spiritual. Subscribed and keep it up :)
Thank you for the kind words and sharing your thoughts.
It’s interesting you touched on ritual.
I think you are going to enjoy the article coming out Tuesday morning EST.
Insightful piece! I'm wondering if you've read Determined by Robert Sapolsky, or listened to him on podcasts. He's got an interesting take, which sort of layers your argument further. His claim is that, despite however much you want to, you can't will yourself to have more willpower. Willpower of course being the driver of discipline on a moment to moment basis.
Hi @Philip Birk thanks for reading and sharing the kind words.
I had no heard of Robert Sapolosky or his book but I’m adding it to my reading queue now and looking forward to checking it out.
Thank you for the suggestion!
Appreciate your take on this subject Ben, you’ve got my sub.
Thank you @Wesley Yancy super kind words and will do my best to make it worthwhile for you.